Comments on: When do I start tomatoes from seed in upstate NY? http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/ Hardy plants for hardy souls Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:53:36 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Farmer John http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57869 Farmer John Sat, 07 Mar 2009 01:24:31 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57869 I agree, milk cartons are much cheaper and easier than wall of waters. Just remember to take the caps off the plastic ones or you will cook the tomato plants on hot days without ventilation. I also plant tomatoes a few weeks a part in case I lose some to one cold snap, the others I've still got in the greenhouse will be fine. I agree, milk cartons are much cheaper and easier than wall of waters. Just remember to take the caps off the plastic ones or you will cook the tomato plants on hot days without ventilation. I also plant tomatoes a few weeks a part in case I lose some to one cold snap, the others I’ve still got in the greenhouse will be fine.

]]> By: Jane E. http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57868 Jane E. Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:32:21 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57868 If you are planning to home-grow tomatoes this year, I highly recommend The Tomato Stake. www.thetomatostake.com Its easier to use than metal cages or towers, stronger than bamboo sticks, and wont rot or splinter like wood stakes. Happy Gardening! If you are planning to home-grow tomatoes this year, I highly recommend The Tomato Stake.

http://www.thetomatostake.com

Its easier to use than metal cages or towers, stronger than bamboo sticks, and wont rot or splinter like wood stakes.

Happy Gardening!

]]> By: Ro http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57721 Ro Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:46:03 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57721 In the Feb/Mar issue of Horticulture, they have a great article on getting early tomatoes (which to me means in the summer, not the fall). Not only does he repot often, but he removes the lowest leaves and pots up higher on the stem to produce more roots. He prepares his planting spot a few weeks ahead of time by putting decomposing waste in the bottom of the hole to produce warmth in the soil, and then covers it with soil. He puts the plant out 4 weeks before last frost, surrounds it with 3 1 gallon jugs of water, and then wraps it with a cage covered in clear plastic (I have also seen people use garbage bags) where the top can be opened and closed. I only use peat pots for transplants where the roots don't like to be disturbed. You could pot it on, however, by putting the whole peat pot in a bigger pot and surrounding it with soil (yes, I have done this). When growing under lights, be sure to keep the plants an inch or so away from the lights, otherwise you will get very tall, but very weak plants. You can learn a lot lurking around GardenWeb forums. They have a forum on seed starting under propagation and one on tomatoes under vegetable gardening. My understanding is that peppers and eggplant are more sensitive to cold than tomatoes - I usually plant my tomatoes at last frost date. I live 2 hours north of Talitha, but have more moderate weather. Winter is just as long, however. In the Feb/Mar issue of Horticulture, they have a great article on getting early tomatoes (which to me means in the summer, not the fall). Not only does he repot often, but he removes the lowest leaves and pots up higher on the stem to produce more roots. He prepares his planting spot a few weeks ahead of time by putting decomposing waste in the bottom of the hole to produce warmth in the soil, and then covers it with soil. He puts the plant out 4 weeks before last frost, surrounds it with 3 1 gallon jugs of water, and then wraps it with a cage covered in clear plastic (I have also seen people use garbage bags) where the top can be opened and closed.

I only use peat pots for transplants where the roots don’t like to be disturbed. You could pot it on, however, by putting the whole peat pot in a bigger pot and surrounding it with soil (yes, I have done this).

When growing under lights, be sure to keep the plants an inch or so away from the lights, otherwise you will get very tall, but very weak plants.

You can learn a lot lurking around GardenWeb forums. They have a forum on seed starting under propagation and one on tomatoes under vegetable gardening.

My understanding is that peppers and eggplant are more sensitive to cold than tomatoes – I usually plant my tomatoes at last frost date.

I live 2 hours north of Talitha, but have more moderate weather. Winter is just as long, however.

]]> By: Talitha http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57709 Talitha Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:42:36 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57709 Mary S., I missed your comment earlier---If you have level ground, wall o' waters aren't that fussy. I would use them in a heart-beat if I had level ground. I know it seems intimidating to fill all those chambers, but it's actually not too hard if you use the top of either a milk jug or soda bottle as a funnel. It would be easier yet if your hose could actually reach to your vegetable garden (which, alas, mine does not). I do have to say, though, that if I <em>did</em> use wall o' waters, I wouldn't put my tomatoes out in April again. Partly because I think it's too early for tomatoes to really get going, but also because it's too chilly to be messing with water in April. MSS, I do think wall o' waters would be good for you. We have the same situation in May. It is not uncommon for us to have a few glorious (or even scorching---Mom and I can remember a few Mays with 90 degree weather!) weeks in May, followed by a cold snap. The glorious weeks make you want to get everything in the ground, but hard experience teaches there will yet be at least one more frost. It's hard to sit by and do nothing, and one is always tempted just to risk it. If the wall o' waters didn't want to follow gravity downhill, I'd definitely plant my tomatoes out in May. I have to flat out ignore all advice about not putting seedlings out until night temperatures stay above XX degrees. It's not at all uncommon for our summer night-time temps to drop well into the low 50s, and often well into the 40s. (This can happen even as they soar into the 90s during the day----going back that whole valley thing. A rule of thumb I sometimes use is that our weather will be about 10 degrees more extreme--hotter or colder--than what is forcasted for our area.) There was one extreme year where I remember hearing my brother scraping the frost off his windshield on June 30th!! This is an excerpt from a letter I wrote to a friend in 2005: "<em>Weather has become one of my favorite things to gripe about. Cadie has been keeping track of the weather. Apparently, we got our "normal" summer weather in April and May. We hit our first 90 day on May 11. Mostly for my own amusement (though you should feel free to feel amused as well), here is some pointless data entry, starting with June 1, our weather looks like this (I'll highlight interesting points): Highs Lows 88.6 44.8 91.6 50.2 Jump of about 50 degrees in 12 hours followed by a 40 degree drop. 84.8 51.1 89.8 56.7 93.4 53.3 93.4 58.1 91.6 54 99.4 53.8 94.9 63.2 ---skip three days (unrecorded)--- 97 assuming the unrecorded days were all in the 90s as well (and I think they were) this is 9 day run of 90 weather 88.9 69.5 84.1 65.3 71.3 56.7 71.5 48.6 65.7 55.4 75.1 50.6 89.3 49.5 89.3 50 82.3 54.5 86.4 38.5 lowest temp in June 92.7 48.2 50 degree jump in 12 hours 98.3 52.6And then drop 40 degrees, and then climb 50 degrees. . . 99.4 61.4And then drop 50 degrees, and then climb 50 degrees. . . 99.4 59.6 96.1 65 94.9 67.9 94.1 67.5 July 94.1 61End of eight day run of 90 degrees 81.2 53.5 86.4 42.7 coldest day in July so far. 92.7 54 50 degree jump in twelve ours. 88.2 63.9 86.8 67 79.2 65 73 62.8 78.1 60.5 (July 9th, butchering day) 91.6 53.5 94.1 52.6 99.9 64.3 Hottest day of the year so far 92.7 65 91.6 62.3 97 61.7 91.1 69.5 and today's high was 92.7Eight day run of 90 degree weather 33 days of 88 or higer weather 15 days of 87 or lower weather (give or take 3 days) and about half of those nights were 57 or cooler. I noted the nights at 57 or cooler, because some plants are senstive to weather cooler than 60 degrees. One book I read said not to plant out basil until the weather stayed about 60 degrees. If one interpruted this to mean the daily weather, than I did that. If this means the night weather, than I shouldn't be able to grow basil (but I am). Another book stated quite firmly that an eggplant will sustain damage in any weather below 60 degrees. I'm not growing eggplants, but I hear most people group together peppers and eggplants and both being very picky. So I wonder if that is one of the reasons why my peppers are always stunted and hardly produce a thing? Personally, I like the cool nights. But maybe the plants don't? Maybe I'll have to try row covers? </em>" Thankfully, that wasn't a typical year. But if there is one thing our weather isn't, it's moderate. Hence why just about every type of seed I grow, I feel the need to select the one that is the most resistant to just about any weather sort. Mary S., I missed your comment earlier—If you have level ground, wall o’ waters aren’t that fussy. I would use them in a heart-beat if I had level ground. I know it seems intimidating to fill all those chambers, but it’s actually not too hard if you use the top of either a milk jug or soda bottle as a funnel. It would be easier yet if your hose could actually reach to your vegetable garden (which, alas, mine does not). I do have to say, though, that if I did use wall o’ waters, I wouldn’t put my tomatoes out in April again. Partly because I think it’s too early for tomatoes to really get going, but also because it’s too chilly to be messing with water in April.

MSS, I do think wall o’ waters would be good for you. We have the same situation in May. It is not uncommon for us to have a few glorious (or even scorching—Mom and I can remember a few Mays with 90 degree weather!) weeks in May, followed by a cold snap. The glorious weeks make you want to get everything in the ground, but hard experience teaches there will yet be at least one more frost. It’s hard to sit by and do nothing, and one is always tempted just to risk it. If the wall o’ waters didn’t want to follow gravity downhill, I’d definitely plant my tomatoes out in May.

I have to flat out ignore all advice about not putting seedlings out until night temperatures stay above XX degrees. It’s not at all uncommon for our summer night-time temps to drop well into the low 50s, and often well into the 40s. (This can happen even as they soar into the 90s during the day—-going back that whole valley thing. A rule of thumb I sometimes use is that our weather will be about 10 degrees more extreme–hotter or colder–than what is forcasted for our area.) There was one extreme year where I remember hearing my brother scraping the frost off his windshield on June 30th!! This is an excerpt from a letter I wrote to a friend in 2005:

“Weather has become one of my favorite things to gripe about. Cadie has been keeping track of the weather. Apparently, we got our “normal” summer weather in April and May. We hit our first 90 day on May 11. Mostly for my own amusement (though you should feel free to feel amused as well), here is some pointless data entry, starting with June 1, our weather looks like this (I’ll highlight interesting points):

Highs Lows

88.6 44.8
91.6 50.2 Jump of about 50 degrees in 12 hours followed by a 40 degree drop.
84.8 51.1
89.8 56.7
93.4 53.3
93.4 58.1
91.6 54
99.4 53.8
94.9 63.2
—skip three days (unrecorded)—
97 assuming the unrecorded days were all in the 90s as well (and I think they were) this is 9 day run of 90 weather
88.9 69.5
84.1 65.3
71.3 56.7
71.5 48.6
65.7 55.4
75.1 50.6
89.3 49.5
89.3 50
82.3 54.5
86.4 38.5 lowest temp in June
92.7 48.2 50 degree jump in 12 hours
98.3 52.6And then drop 40 degrees, and then climb 50 degrees. . .
99.4 61.4And then drop 50 degrees, and then climb 50 degrees. . .
99.4 59.6
96.1 65
94.9 67.9
94.1 67.5
July
94.1 61End of eight day run of 90 degrees
81.2 53.5
86.4 42.7 coldest day in July so far.
92.7 54 50 degree jump in twelve ours.
88.2 63.9
86.8 67
79.2 65
73 62.8
78.1 60.5 (July 9th, butchering day)
91.6 53.5
94.1 52.6
99.9 64.3 Hottest day of the year so far
92.7 65
91.6 62.3
97 61.7
91.1 69.5
and today’s high was 92.7Eight day run of 90 degree weather

33 days of 88 or higer weather 15 days of 87 or lower weather (give or take 3 days) and about half of those nights were 57 or cooler.

I noted the nights at 57 or cooler, because some plants are senstive to weather cooler than 60 degrees. One book I read said not to plant out basil until the weather stayed about 60 degrees. If one interpruted this to mean the daily weather, than I did that. If this means the night weather, than I shouldn’t be able to grow basil (but I am). Another book stated quite firmly that an eggplant will sustain damage in any weather below 60 degrees. I’m not growing eggplants, but I hear most people group together peppers and eggplants and both being very picky. So I wonder if that is one of the reasons why my peppers are always stunted and hardly produce a thing? Personally, I like the cool nights. But maybe the plants don’t? Maybe I’ll have to try row covers? ”

Thankfully, that wasn’t a typical year. But if there is one thing our weather isn’t, it’s moderate. Hence why just about every type of seed I grow, I feel the need to select the one that is the most resistant to just about any weather sort.

]]> By: mss @ Zanthan Gardens http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57706 mss @ Zanthan Gardens Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:53:42 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57706 Talitha, thanks for the guest post. I appreciate all the specifics you include even though I grow in a hot climate and my situation is almost the opposite of yours--with plenty of it's own tricky problems. But I find it very interesting to read about what cold climate gardeners go through. Austin hasn't reached its average frost date yet (Feb 26-Mar 3) and we've already had 9 days above 80 degrees. My nursery says not to plant out tomatoes until night temperatures are reliably above 40. This week our temperatures will range from 50s-80s...but we started yesterday with at 32. Confusing for plants and gardeners! Now you've got me thinking that the Wall o' Water might be a good solution here. Despite our few freezes, we have a short tomato growing season because in summer the night temperatures are too hot for tomatoes to set fruit well. Talitha, thanks for the guest post. I appreciate all the specifics you include even though I grow in a hot climate and my situation is almost the opposite of yours–with plenty of it’s own tricky problems. But I find it very interesting to read about what cold climate gardeners go through.

Austin hasn’t reached its average frost date yet (Feb 26-Mar 3) and we’ve already had 9 days above 80 degrees. My nursery says not to plant out tomatoes until night temperatures are reliably above 40. This week our temperatures will range from 50s-80s…but we started yesterday with at 32. Confusing for plants and gardeners!

Now you’ve got me thinking that the Wall o’ Water might be a good solution here. Despite our few freezes, we have a short tomato growing season because in summer the night temperatures are too hot for tomatoes to set fruit well.

]]> By: LINDA FROM EACH LITTLE WORLD http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57704 LINDA FROM EACH LITTLE WORLD Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:32:35 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57704 I am not a seed starter or veggie gardener, but I just had to say what clear advice this is. And all the wall o'water info was very interesting. Even if I'm not going to necessarily try it, I like knowing what others are doing and why. I also have to say that mom is lucky to have such a knowledgeable gardening partner! I am not a seed starter or veggie gardener, but I just had to say what clear advice this is. And all the wall o’water info was very interesting. Even if I’m not going to necessarily try it, I like knowing what others are doing and why. I also have to say that mom is lucky to have such a knowledgeable gardening partner!

]]> By: Talitha http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57695 Talitha Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:08:06 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57695 Hi, Ellen, just wanted to make a quick note---if you start your tomatoes inside 6 weeks early you <em>must</em> pot them on, otherwise you are absolutely correct---they become root-bound and stunted. They aren't going to be happy in a little two inch by two inch container. If I didn't have such a short growing season, I'd say it wasn't worth the bother, but <em>because</em> my growing season is so short, I really do find it necessary. (BTW, this post was actually a response to a question Mom got via email. She doesn't do vegetables, so she forwarded the question to me. I'm always glad to give my best shot at answering questions, but I really don't consider myself an expert. Hi, Ellen, just wanted to make a quick note—if you start your tomatoes inside 6 weeks early you must pot them on, otherwise you are absolutely correct—they become root-bound and stunted. They aren’t going to be happy in a little two inch by two inch container. If I didn’t have such a short growing season, I’d say it wasn’t worth the bother, but because my growing season is so short, I really do find it necessary.

(BTW, this post was actually a response to a question Mom got via email. She doesn’t do vegetables, so she forwarded the question to me. I’m always glad to give my best shot at answering questions, but I really don’t consider myself an expert.

]]> By: Tina http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57692 Tina Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:26:05 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57692 An even easier and customizable tool (for anyone's specific area's conditions). It will tell you exactly what and when: <a href="http://www.chestnut-sw.com/growform.htm" rel="nofollow">The Grow Guide</a> An even easier and customizable tool (for anyone’s specific area’s conditions). It will tell you exactly what and when:
The Grow Guide

]]> By: Ellen Bell http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57691 Ellen Bell Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:08:17 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57691 I'm also a vegetable gardener (not necessarily a very good one, but I still enjoy it!). Anyway, last year I started all my tomatoes indoors from seed. I followed the package advice, starting them about 6 weeks before the last frost, which in my area (Des Moines, IA) is about April 1. My tomatoes were so big by the time I was ready to move them outside, they were unmanageable! In fact, once I moved them outside, it took them quite a while to take hold and really start growing. I think because they got so big in their indoor pots, they were somewhat "stunted" and had trouble afterward. Anyway, my advice would be not to start things too early indoors! I’m also a vegetable gardener (not necessarily a very good one, but I still enjoy it!). Anyway, last year I started all my tomatoes indoors from seed. I followed the package advice, starting them about 6 weeks before the last frost, which in my area (Des Moines, IA) is about April 1. My tomatoes were so big by the time I was ready to move them outside, they were unmanageable! In fact, once I moved them outside, it took them quite a while to take hold and really start growing. I think because they got so big in their indoor pots, they were somewhat “stunted” and had trouble afterward. Anyway, my advice would be not to start things too early indoors!

]]> By: Mary S. http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2009/02/21/when-do-i-start-tomatoes-from-seed-in-upstate-ny/comment-page-1/#comment-57683 Mary S. Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:14:00 +0000 http://www.coldclimategardening.com/?p=1878#comment-57683 I agree with Susan about wind protection. I've never tried wall o'waters because I've heard how fussy they are to put together, but I put a bit of plastic or a cut-off milk carton around my tomato seedlings to keep them from fainting in the wind--which is also a problem in my part of Minnesota. Thanks for the good advice on seed starting. I agree with Susan about wind protection. I’ve never tried wall o’waters because I’ve heard how fussy they are to put together, but I put a bit of plastic or a cut-off milk carton around my tomato seedlings to keep them from fainting in the wind–which is also a problem in my part of Minnesota. Thanks for the good advice on seed starting.

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