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	<title>Comments on: Canada thistle, the plague of my peonies</title>
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	<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/</link>
	<description>Hardy plants for hardy souls</description>
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		<title>By: Donna</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-80420</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-80420</guid>
		<description>Like many of you, I am just now realizing what a plague this weed is.  I&#039;ve let it get a foothold in our beds for about 3 years now.  Like many of you, i have pulled out the weeds and think I&#039;ve done more harm than good.  I&#039;m reading all sorts of things, and am confused on something, maybe someone could help clarify....
1.  Can i just apply RoundUp to the plant when it is small or do i need to let it grow tall before i lop it off. 
2.  If i need to cut it off, do i apply the roundup to the stem that is left behind?
3.  If i apply RoundUp to the plant, do i put it on all the leaves or just spray it at the base of the stem?

Any help would be appreciated.  I fear that if i let it grow too high and there are seeds/flowrs on it, the wind will blow and it will make the situation much worse. 

Thanks.
2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like many of you, I am just now realizing what a plague this weed is.  I&#8217;ve let it get a foothold in our beds for about 3 years now.  Like many of you, i have pulled out the weeds and think I&#8217;ve done more harm than good.  I&#8217;m reading all sorts of things, and am confused on something, maybe someone could help clarify&#8230;.<br />
1.  Can i just apply RoundUp to the plant when it is small or do i need to let it grow tall before i lop it off.<br />
2.  If i need to cut it off, do i apply the roundup to the stem that is left behind?<br />
3.  If i apply RoundUp to the plant, do i put it on all the leaves or just spray it at the base of the stem?</p>
<p>Any help would be appreciated.  I fear that if i let it grow too high and there are seeds/flowrs on it, the wind will blow and it will make the situation much worse. </p>
<p>Thanks.<br />
2.</p>
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		<title>By: brandy</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-78910</link>
		<dc:creator>brandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jul 2011 20:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-78910</guid>
		<description>thank you!  i am thrilled to say i finally found a product that *really*really*really* works.

http://www.yardlover.com/bonide-vine-and-stump-killer-8oz?ctype=2&amp;gclid=CKPrnvP_6qkCFQUb6wodCXHeYQ

and it won&#039;t kill the checkbook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you!  i am thrilled to say i finally found a product that *really*really*really* works.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.yardlover.com/bonide-vine-and-stump-killer-8oz?ctype=2&#038;gclid=CKPrnvP_6qkCFQUb6wodCXHeYQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.yardlover.com/bonide-vine-and-stump-killer-8oz?ctype=2&#038;gclid=CKPrnvP_6qkCFQUb6wodCXHeYQ</a></p>
<p>and it won&#8217;t kill the checkbook.</p>
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		<title>By: brandy</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-78909</link>
		<dc:creator>brandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jul 2011 20:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-78909</guid>
		<description>since posting on the blog - i have tried so many things.  i finally got a great recommendation for something that is quite effective but not a global killer - so replanting within a short (week) period of time is possible, but this stuff really, really works:

http://www.yardlover.com/bonide-vine-and-stump-killer-8oz?ctype=2&amp;gclid=CKPrnvP_6qkCFQUb6wodCXHeYQ

I let my thistles get about 2 feet tall, cut them off, and then use an old paintbrush and literally paint it all over them.  in about an hour, they wither, and overnight, they turn black and start to die.  it was recommended to do this on a moderately warm and sunny day without forecast of rain - apparently, their root systems are most active on a cooler day and it&#039;s most effective then.  

have to say it really works.  it&#039;s vicious stuff and so satisfying to see them dying back.  very few grow where they have died; i was told it may take a couple of applications to really kill the root system.

THANK GOD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>since posting on the blog &#8211; i have tried so many things.  i finally got a great recommendation for something that is quite effective but not a global killer &#8211; so replanting within a short (week) period of time is possible, but this stuff really, really works:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.yardlover.com/bonide-vine-and-stump-killer-8oz?ctype=2&#038;gclid=CKPrnvP_6qkCFQUb6wodCXHeYQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.yardlover.com/bonide-vine-and-stump-killer-8oz?ctype=2&#038;gclid=CKPrnvP_6qkCFQUb6wodCXHeYQ</a></p>
<p>I let my thistles get about 2 feet tall, cut them off, and then use an old paintbrush and literally paint it all over them.  in about an hour, they wither, and overnight, they turn black and start to die.  it was recommended to do this on a moderately warm and sunny day without forecast of rain &#8211; apparently, their root systems are most active on a cooler day and it&#8217;s most effective then.  </p>
<p>have to say it really works.  it&#8217;s vicious stuff and so satisfying to see them dying back.  very few grow where they have died; i was told it may take a couple of applications to really kill the root system.</p>
<p>THANK GOD.</p>
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		<title>By: Marie</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-78881</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2011 14:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-78881</guid>
		<description>I was told to cut the tops off the Canadian Thistle and pour used motor oil down the shaft.  I have not tried it yet but was wondering if anyone else has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was told to cut the tops off the Canadian Thistle and pour used motor oil down the shaft.  I have not tried it yet but was wondering if anyone else has.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy Purdy</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-69121</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy Purdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 18:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-69121</guid>
		<description>Brandy, I brushed Roundup on the thistle leaves after the good plants have died back in the fall. This has really helped kill them off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandy, I brushed Roundup on the thistle leaves after the good plants have died back in the fall. This has really helped kill them off.</p>
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		<title>By: brandy</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-69117</link>
		<dc:creator>brandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 13:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-69117</guid>
		<description>Wow.  Thank you for posting this.  I have struggled with thistles since the first year I have lived in my home - well-intentioned friends tilled and mulched my front flower beds as a house-warming gift, and sadly, the mulch they used was mixed with thistle seeds.  Thistles have been the bane of my front flower bed&#039;s existence for three years.  I am trying the boiling water method today - it does seem to cause instant damage, as the thistles curl up and turn black almost immediately.  I am praying that this somehow impacts the horizontal root system; these things are incredibly evil and tenacious.  I, too, have tried every chemical, household vinegar, simply pulling and mulching - who knew mulch was such a wonderful environment for them to flourish - everything.  My last ditch effort is the boiling water.  Keep your fingers crossed it works!  I want my spring bulbs to be thistle-free.  BTW - the photo of the wheelbarrow was entirely too close to what my piles look like when I weed and pull thistles.  *shudder* I feel your pain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Thank you for posting this.  I have struggled with thistles since the first year I have lived in my home &#8211; well-intentioned friends tilled and mulched my front flower beds as a house-warming gift, and sadly, the mulch they used was mixed with thistle seeds.  Thistles have been the bane of my front flower bed&#8217;s existence for three years.  I am trying the boiling water method today &#8211; it does seem to cause instant damage, as the thistles curl up and turn black almost immediately.  I am praying that this somehow impacts the horizontal root system; these things are incredibly evil and tenacious.  I, too, have tried every chemical, household vinegar, simply pulling and mulching &#8211; who knew mulch was such a wonderful environment for them to flourish &#8211; everything.  My last ditch effort is the boiling water.  Keep your fingers crossed it works!  I want my spring bulbs to be thistle-free.  BTW &#8211; the photo of the wheelbarrow was entirely too close to what my piles look like when I weed and pull thistles.  *shudder* I feel your pain.</p>
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		<title>By: kjmclark</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-64934</link>
		<dc:creator>kjmclark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-64934</guid>
		<description>You might want to update this.  It&#039;s been a problem in farm fields since the turn of last century.  Plucking or cutting it are both about the same, but you have to do it repeatedly.  The old pre-herbicide way to deal with it was to clean cultivate every three weeks for a full season.  We just did that to a half-acre or so of infested area on our organic farm. 

Clean cultivating means removing everything.  So I hooked up sweeps to our cultivator, and did the whole half-acre about six times, from May to August.  Sweeps work kind of like a hoe, both slicing things below the soil surface and lifting the soil surface to &#039;pull&#039; the plants out.  After leaving the field completely bare for four months, I planted the field to winter wheat.  The wheat is supposed to provide enough competition to keep the canada thistle at bay for the spring and summer, at least.  It may be largely gone from the middle of that field, but it will start creeping in from the edges.

The other organic way to deal with it is to combine a strong smother crop with frequent cutting.  Supposedly sudan grass is about the best, since it&#039;s a strongly growing annual.  It gets up to 6 feet tall and grows back quickly once it&#039;s cut.  We&#039;ll be putting most of the rest of the infested area in sudan grass next spring.  Then we&#039;ll be cutting the sudan grass about once a month for the summer.  The nice thing about the sudan grass is that it&#039;s providing a good organic mulch while dealing with the canada thistle, as opposed to the clean cultivating, where we&#039;re losing organic matter all summer.

The overall point is that you need to smother the thistle, cut or pull it frequently and persistently, or apply herbicides persistently.  You&#039;ll do the most damage to the plant if you can wait until just before it flowers to pull/cut it, but then you risk spreading seeds if you can&#039;t get it cut fast enough.  No fun no matter how you cut it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might want to update this.  It&#8217;s been a problem in farm fields since the turn of last century.  Plucking or cutting it are both about the same, but you have to do it repeatedly.  The old pre-herbicide way to deal with it was to clean cultivate every three weeks for a full season.  We just did that to a half-acre or so of infested area on our organic farm. </p>
<p>Clean cultivating means removing everything.  So I hooked up sweeps to our cultivator, and did the whole half-acre about six times, from May to August.  Sweeps work kind of like a hoe, both slicing things below the soil surface and lifting the soil surface to &#8216;pull&#8217; the plants out.  After leaving the field completely bare for four months, I planted the field to winter wheat.  The wheat is supposed to provide enough competition to keep the canada thistle at bay for the spring and summer, at least.  It may be largely gone from the middle of that field, but it will start creeping in from the edges.</p>
<p>The other organic way to deal with it is to combine a strong smother crop with frequent cutting.  Supposedly sudan grass is about the best, since it&#8217;s a strongly growing annual.  It gets up to 6 feet tall and grows back quickly once it&#8217;s cut.  We&#8217;ll be putting most of the rest of the infested area in sudan grass next spring.  Then we&#8217;ll be cutting the sudan grass about once a month for the summer.  The nice thing about the sudan grass is that it&#8217;s providing a good organic mulch while dealing with the canada thistle, as opposed to the clean cultivating, where we&#8217;re losing organic matter all summer.</p>
<p>The overall point is that you need to smother the thistle, cut or pull it frequently and persistently, or apply herbicides persistently.  You&#8217;ll do the most damage to the plant if you can wait until just before it flowers to pull/cut it, but then you risk spreading seeds if you can&#8217;t get it cut fast enough.  No fun no matter how you cut it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-59018</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 22:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-59018</guid>
		<description>I removed an old azalea bush from one of my front gardens, and while I let the soil rest, I neglected to mulch. I then discovered this very nasty weed that I pulled for the season and it seemed to go away in early fall. It came back with a vengence in the spring of 2006 so I took a sample to my local nursery and I was informed it was thistle. In the meantime I had planted a white bleeding heart where I removed the azalea and the thistle are taking over! I know now that I shouldn&#039;t have been pulling the weeds. After doing some intense research, I found some advise to dig out a layer a few inches deep (up to 6&quot;) of soil and use some type of material to cover affected area - like a piece of old carpet, sheet metal - something dense to prevent the thistle from breaking through. Heavily mulch on top of the barrier. He also advised that garden strength vinegar is a good way to kill off thistle but you have to be really careful with it. Regular vinegar you buy at the grocery store is not strong enough.
I&#039;m so frustrated with trying to keep ahead of the thistle! My worry is that it will take over my gardens and I have some beautiful long-established white and pink bleeding hearts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I removed an old azalea bush from one of my front gardens, and while I let the soil rest, I neglected to mulch. I then discovered this very nasty weed that I pulled for the season and it seemed to go away in early fall. It came back with a vengence in the spring of 2006 so I took a sample to my local nursery and I was informed it was thistle. In the meantime I had planted a white bleeding heart where I removed the azalea and the thistle are taking over! I know now that I shouldn&#8217;t have been pulling the weeds. After doing some intense research, I found some advise to dig out a layer a few inches deep (up to 6&#8243;) of soil and use some type of material to cover affected area &#8211; like a piece of old carpet, sheet metal &#8211; something dense to prevent the thistle from breaking through. Heavily mulch on top of the barrier. He also advised that garden strength vinegar is a good way to kill off thistle but you have to be really careful with it. Regular vinegar you buy at the grocery store is not strong enough.<br />
I&#8217;m so frustrated with trying to keep ahead of the thistle! My worry is that it will take over my gardens and I have some beautiful long-established white and pink bleeding hearts.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris from Britania</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-56722</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris from Britania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-56722</guid>
		<description>In England we call it creeping thistle, any guess as to why? Back in the summer I had to remove a rather large patch from my neighbour&#039;s garden, I estimated there were between 100 to 150 thistles, some had grown to over 4ft tall with the average height being closer to 2ft. With such a dense patch there was little hope of going in with a spade, after what I read I gald I didn&#039;t. Again due to the density I couldn&#039;t risk herbicide or cutting them down due to all the srubs the thistles where growing around and sometimes through. So I pulled them out, I wore my PVC chemical gloves (Picked them up for $5 while visiting friends in NH) and just pulled them out, also removing around 6 inches of the root with each stem. They started to grow back 5 weeks later but not to the extent they were when I pulled them. 

I have found to my dissmay that glyphosate isn&#039;t 100% effective against such an established infestation, especially when you meausre their height in feet; only ways I know to remove creeping thistle for good, and both are very drastic, is to dig up the area with a JCB and replace the soil or treat the thistle with very harsh chemicals; a mix of sodium hyroxide (lye) and any non-acidic or salt based root absorbed herbicide. It is important to apply this mixture by spray from max effect, on a warm sunny day most surface growth will be dead and brown in an hour. Using concentrated acetic acid in place of the lye is an enviromentally safer opption but both can cause a dangerous soil pH shift in the immediate area, they may also be other side effects depending on what other herbicides are used. The most powerful and easily accessable mixes I found to be is lye and sodium chlorate (not sure on avialability in North America.)  Stay away from chlorates unless you don&#039;t want anything to grow in the treated area for a while, also because of its chemistry you cannot use chlorates with acids, hense why I used lye. This stuff is best used on paths and drive ways as it is the atomic bomb when it comes to weed killers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In England we call it creeping thistle, any guess as to why? Back in the summer I had to remove a rather large patch from my neighbour&#8217;s garden, I estimated there were between 100 to 150 thistles, some had grown to over 4ft tall with the average height being closer to 2ft. With such a dense patch there was little hope of going in with a spade, after what I read I gald I didn&#8217;t. Again due to the density I couldn&#8217;t risk herbicide or cutting them down due to all the srubs the thistles where growing around and sometimes through. So I pulled them out, I wore my PVC chemical gloves (Picked them up for $5 while visiting friends in NH) and just pulled them out, also removing around 6 inches of the root with each stem. They started to grow back 5 weeks later but not to the extent they were when I pulled them. </p>
<p>I have found to my dissmay that glyphosate isn&#8217;t 100% effective against such an established infestation, especially when you meausre their height in feet; only ways I know to remove creeping thistle for good, and both are very drastic, is to dig up the area with a JCB and replace the soil or treat the thistle with very harsh chemicals; a mix of sodium hyroxide (lye) and any non-acidic or salt based root absorbed herbicide. It is important to apply this mixture by spray from max effect, on a warm sunny day most surface growth will be dead and brown in an hour. Using concentrated acetic acid in place of the lye is an enviromentally safer opption but both can cause a dangerous soil pH shift in the immediate area, they may also be other side effects depending on what other herbicides are used. The most powerful and easily accessable mixes I found to be is lye and sodium chlorate (not sure on avialability in North America.)  Stay away from chlorates unless you don&#8217;t want anything to grow in the treated area for a while, also because of its chemistry you cannot use chlorates with acids, hense why I used lye. This stuff is best used on paths and drive ways as it is the atomic bomb when it comes to weed killers.</p>
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		<title>By: Garden Bloggers&#8217; Bloom Day: July &#124; Cold Climate Gardening</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/comment-page-1/#comment-19057</link>
		<dc:creator>Garden Bloggers&#8217; Bloom Day: July &#124; Cold Climate Gardening</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/06/23/canada-thistle-the-plague-of-my-peonies/#comment-19057</guid>
		<description>[...] Ah, yes, Garden Bloggers Bloom Day has rolled around again. I always seem to have trouble finishing these bloom day posts on time. Even though I take photos for days ahead, the actual middle day of the month always seems to be a busy time. I should probably make it short and sweet, but making anything with words short seems to be difficult for me. I wanted to start off with larkspur, just to astonish all those Austin bloggers who seem to think it is a spring blooming plant. Are you kidding? Mine hadn&#8217;t even germinated for the April bloom report. Johnny&#8217;s is one of the few seed merchants that sells larkspur by color, and I always get this dark blue-purple to sow in the peony bed along with peony-flowered poppies, so there will be some color here after the peonies are done blooming. That&#8217;s the plan, anyway. Germination of both poppy and larkspur is always sporadic, and the poppies often look spindly. Maybe the peonies are just too much competition. Or those dratted Canada thistles. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ah, yes, Garden Bloggers Bloom Day has rolled around again. I always seem to have trouble finishing these bloom day posts on time. Even though I take photos for days ahead, the actual middle day of the month always seems to be a busy time. I should probably make it short and sweet, but making anything with words short seems to be difficult for me. I wanted to start off with larkspur, just to astonish all those Austin bloggers who seem to think it is a spring blooming plant. Are you kidding? Mine hadn&#8217;t even germinated for the April bloom report. Johnny&#8217;s is one of the few seed merchants that sells larkspur by color, and I always get this dark blue-purple to sow in the peony bed along with peony-flowered poppies, so there will be some color here after the peonies are done blooming. That&#8217;s the plan, anyway. Germination of both poppy and larkspur is always sporadic, and the poppies often look spindly. Maybe the peonies are just too much competition. Or those dratted Canada thistles. [...]</p>
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