<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Teaming with Microbes: Take 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/</link>
	<description>Hardy plants for hardy souls</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:24:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-14831</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 05:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-14831</guid>
		<description>Wow! I think I&#039;m going to have to read this book now. You&#039;ve all really piqued my interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! I think I&#8217;m going to have to read this book now. You&#8217;ve all really piqued my interest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kathy Purdy</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13637</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy Purdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 02:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-13637</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Tracy. Anyone reading my reviews, please read the other ones, too. They are all listed at Carol&#039;s website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Tracy. Anyone reading my reviews, please read the other ones, too. They are all listed at Carol&#8217;s website.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13604</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-13604</guid>
		<description>Firefly: I think you&#039;ll find when you read the book that the authors are not nearly as prescriptive as you may think. The first half of the book describes the chemistry and biology (with pretty darn readable text) and the second half describes the primary methods they recommend to achieve various results. (Those results make sense if you&#039;ve read the first half of the book.). At no time did I feel as if the authors were preaching or trying to state hard-and-fast rules - that just was not the tone of the book. I believe they say several times that these methods *could* be used, not that they *must* be used.

As for the digging, it all makes a lot of sense when you read the book. Nowhere do they talk about not digging up rocks, or that the digging of animals is any better or worse than other digging. I think the main idea they were trying to get at was to minimize digging. I also think they were mainly concerned about the traditional idea that an established vegetable garden needs to be rototilled every year. And I&#039;m sure they would say that if you DO disturb the soil, you should add compost, mulch, etc. to restore the soil food web. Actually, this is all the same stuff that Lee Reich says in his book Weedless Gardening, the only difference being that Teaming with Microbes describes the &quot;why&quot; behind it - the biology.

I think you&#039;ll see when you read the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firefly: I think you&#8217;ll find when you read the book that the authors are not nearly as prescriptive as you may think. The first half of the book describes the chemistry and biology (with pretty darn readable text) and the second half describes the primary methods they recommend to achieve various results. (Those results make sense if you&#8217;ve read the first half of the book.). At no time did I feel as if the authors were preaching or trying to state hard-and-fast rules &#8211; that just was not the tone of the book. I believe they say several times that these methods *could* be used, not that they *must* be used.</p>
<p>As for the digging, it all makes a lot of sense when you read the book. Nowhere do they talk about not digging up rocks, or that the digging of animals is any better or worse than other digging. I think the main idea they were trying to get at was to minimize digging. I also think they were mainly concerned about the traditional idea that an established vegetable garden needs to be rototilled every year. And I&#8217;m sure they would say that if you DO disturb the soil, you should add compost, mulch, etc. to restore the soil food web. Actually, this is all the same stuff that Lee Reich says in his book Weedless Gardening, the only difference being that Teaming with Microbes describes the &#8220;why&#8221; behind it &#8211; the biology.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ll see when you read the book.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: firefly</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13473</link>
		<dc:creator>firefly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-13473</guid>
		<description>? I said quite clearly I hadn&#039;t read the book. My comment was not addressed to the book or its authors in hope of an answer, but to Kathy&#039;s concern was that when she removes rocks she has to disturb a lot of the soil to do so, and to my own sense that many of these prescriptive writings are not entirely based in human or Nature&#039;s reality. 

I feel compelled to point out that, having set up several garden beds in the past year that required sod removal, I am in no way advocating shoveling large tracts of land. For the next set of beds, I smothered the lawn with newspaper and bark mulch.

However, since Mr. Lowenfels has surfaced, I&#039;ll ask: when skunks dig for grubs in a lawn, they can make huge pits. When squirrels bury food they can move a lot of soil and expose plant roots (and they don&#039;t stop with one hole, either). That must also &quot;impact&quot; the soil ecology, but what exactly makes that better than digging out a rock with a shovel?

I look forward to reading &quot;Teaming with Microbes&quot; -- right now I&#039;m in the middle of &quot;Ecology for Gardeners&quot; by Steven Carroll and Steven Salt -- but in terms of my own experience, I have read quite a few very detailed books with lots of must-be-done programs in them, and in the final analysis, when Nature has the last laugh and reality reduces the management program to rubble, it&#039;s the best laid plans of scientists that often turn out to be the biggest &quot;no-no.&quot; 

The problem is that once someone persuasively sets these ideas in public memory, any truly scientific process that contradicts notions has a hell of a time changing course. 

My father, who was a research chemist involved in pesticide development, could certainly attest to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>? I said quite clearly I hadn&#8217;t read the book. My comment was not addressed to the book or its authors in hope of an answer, but to Kathy&#8217;s concern was that when she removes rocks she has to disturb a lot of the soil to do so, and to my own sense that many of these prescriptive writings are not entirely based in human or Nature&#8217;s reality. </p>
<p>I feel compelled to point out that, having set up several garden beds in the past year that required sod removal, I am in no way advocating shoveling large tracts of land. For the next set of beds, I smothered the lawn with newspaper and bark mulch.</p>
<p>However, since Mr. Lowenfels has surfaced, I&#8217;ll ask: when skunks dig for grubs in a lawn, they can make huge pits. When squirrels bury food they can move a lot of soil and expose plant roots (and they don&#8217;t stop with one hole, either). That must also &#8220;impact&#8221; the soil ecology, but what exactly makes that better than digging out a rock with a shovel?</p>
<p>I look forward to reading &#8220;Teaming with Microbes&#8221; &#8212; right now I&#8217;m in the middle of &#8220;Ecology for Gardeners&#8221; by Steven Carroll and Steven Salt &#8212; but in terms of my own experience, I have read quite a few very detailed books with lots of must-be-done programs in them, and in the final analysis, when Nature has the last laugh and reality reduces the management program to rubble, it&#8217;s the best laid plans of scientists that often turn out to be the biggest &#8220;no-no.&#8221; </p>
<p>The problem is that once someone persuasively sets these ideas in public memory, any truly scientific process that contradicts notions has a hell of a time changing course. </p>
<p>My father, who was a research chemist involved in pesticide development, could certainly attest to that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kathy Purdy</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13412</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy Purdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-13412</guid>
		<description>Hi, Jeff--
Thanks for stopping by. I also noticed that the commenters who had the most negative reaction had not read the book. It must be I didn&#039;t clearly distinguish my reactions reading the book and the value of the book itself. There is a lot of information there to be--er, &lt;em&gt;digested&lt;/em&gt; and it&#039;s certainly not Soil Food Web for Dummies. The sum total of the techniques described in the book are something to aspire to. Armed with a better knowledge of the soil food web, all we can do is start from where we are and continue to modify and improve our gardening practices in the right direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Jeff&#8211;<br />
Thanks for stopping by. I also noticed that the commenters who had the most negative reaction had not read the book. It must be I didn&#8217;t clearly distinguish my reactions reading the book and the value of the book itself. There is a lot of information there to be&#8211;er, <em>digested</em> and it&#8217;s certainly not Soil Food Web for Dummies. The sum total of the techniques described in the book are something to aspire to. Armed with a better knowledge of the soil food web, all we can do is start from where we are and continue to modify and improve our gardening practices in the right direction.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff Lowenfels</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13386</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Lowenfels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-13386</guid>
		<description>Hi folks,

I am happy to answer questions re &quot;Teaming with Microbes&quot; and suffer the slings and arrows of disapproval, too! :)

A few comments.  First, we did not mean to suggest you had to tweak your compost pile or use compost tea! You can and, we think should, but you don&#039;t need to.  We gave three ways to return the biology to the right state. Our experience with gardeners here in Anchorage is reflected by your comments. Some will, some won&#039;t go to tea or compost...but mulch ,we were quite sure, was available to everyone and its use required a minimum amount of work. 

As for disturbing the soil....sounds like a sore spot with a few. That is ok, but I didn&#039;t make up the science. Double digging and rototilling are remnants of the Rodale days. Who were the biggest advertisers in their magazines? Bare soil is a big no-no and rototilling and double digging end up wasting valuable carbon and impact the microbial life. And, both practices destroy those wonderful tunnels made by the animals Firefly doesn&#039;t want to get tickets from the police. (I don&#039;t think Firefly read the book!). I don&#039;t think we suggested you couldn&#039;t remove rocks!  

The comment on self mulching was right on the mark. The book explains why...or at least tries to do so! :) and since it is hard to do with annuals and row crops, suggests what would provide the very same kind of microbiology. This is what part two is about.  


Again, if you want to ask questions, just fire away!

CHEERS
 Jeff Lowenfels</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi folks,</p>
<p>I am happy to answer questions re &#8220;Teaming with Microbes&#8221; and suffer the slings and arrows of disapproval, too! <img src='http://www.coldclimategardening.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>A few comments.  First, we did not mean to suggest you had to tweak your compost pile or use compost tea! You can and, we think should, but you don&#8217;t need to.  We gave three ways to return the biology to the right state. Our experience with gardeners here in Anchorage is reflected by your comments. Some will, some won&#8217;t go to tea or compost&#8230;but mulch ,we were quite sure, was available to everyone and its use required a minimum amount of work. </p>
<p>As for disturbing the soil&#8230;.sounds like a sore spot with a few. That is ok, but I didn&#8217;t make up the science. Double digging and rototilling are remnants of the Rodale days. Who were the biggest advertisers in their magazines? Bare soil is a big no-no and rototilling and double digging end up wasting valuable carbon and impact the microbial life. And, both practices destroy those wonderful tunnels made by the animals Firefly doesn&#8217;t want to get tickets from the police. (I don&#8217;t think Firefly read the book!). I don&#8217;t think we suggested you couldn&#8217;t remove rocks!  </p>
<p>The comment on self mulching was right on the mark. The book explains why&#8230;or at least tries to do so! <img src='http://www.coldclimategardening.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  and since it is hard to do with annuals and row crops, suggests what would provide the very same kind of microbiology. This is what part two is about.  </p>
<p>Again, if you want to ask questions, just fire away!</p>
<p>CHEERS<br />
 Jeff Lowenfels</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: firefly</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13342</link>
		<dc:creator>firefly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-13342</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m ambivalent about books that advise you not to do things in the garden like weeding or digging because any disturbance is bad. After all, earthworms and other insects, moles, voles, groundhogs, squirrels, skunks, and even birds are out there tunneling, digging, and scratching up the soil all the time -- are they getting tickets from the Dirt Police? There&#039;s a matter of degree there that ought to be addressed. Digging up a rock in your back yard is not the same as tearing up all the topsoil in the Great Plains with a plow. 

I also think it&#039;s sort of foolish to believe that just because science has analyzed the contents of soil we can therefore come up with some kind of perfect program for management. I&#039;ve read elsewhere that the best soil amendment is self-mulch -- that plants are used to feeding on their own leaf litter -- and so combining things into compost would seem to run counter to that whole idea. 

There&#039;s no end to the imaginable restrictions. I&#039;m working on satisfaction with the &quot;good enough&quot; performances. 

This book is/was on my list of things to read, but I appreciate the heads-up about the level of detail in it. Now I won&#039;t be so inclined to obsess when I finally do start a compost pile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m ambivalent about books that advise you not to do things in the garden like weeding or digging because any disturbance is bad. After all, earthworms and other insects, moles, voles, groundhogs, squirrels, skunks, and even birds are out there tunneling, digging, and scratching up the soil all the time &#8212; are they getting tickets from the Dirt Police? There&#8217;s a matter of degree there that ought to be addressed. Digging up a rock in your back yard is not the same as tearing up all the topsoil in the Great Plains with a plow. </p>
<p>I also think it&#8217;s sort of foolish to believe that just because science has analyzed the contents of soil we can therefore come up with some kind of perfect program for management. I&#8217;ve read elsewhere that the best soil amendment is self-mulch &#8212; that plants are used to feeding on their own leaf litter &#8212; and so combining things into compost would seem to run counter to that whole idea. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no end to the imaginable restrictions. I&#8217;m working on satisfaction with the &#8220;good enough&#8221; performances. </p>
<p>This book is/was on my list of things to read, but I appreciate the heads-up about the level of detail in it. Now I won&#8217;t be so inclined to obsess when I finally do start a compost pile.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Annie in Austin</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13331</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie in Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-13331</guid>
		<description>So their motion was not a 180Âº turn? Your second post does make a difference. Thanks, Kathy, because I was getting the impression of reformed junkies selling their story to Oprah! Although this is obviously not the case, they still sound like guys with a lot of time on their hands! 

We were longtime members of the Field Museum in Chicago, and had the privilege of seeing their Soil Exhibit even as it was being constructed. 
http://www.fieldmuseum.org/undergroundadventure/

I look forward to reading the book, and continuing the underground adventure! 

Annie at the Transplantable Rose</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So their motion was not a 180Âº turn? Your second post does make a difference. Thanks, Kathy, because I was getting the impression of reformed junkies selling their story to Oprah! Although this is obviously not the case, they still sound like guys with a lot of time on their hands! </p>
<p>We were longtime members of the Field Museum in Chicago, and had the privilege of seeing their Soil Exhibit even as it was being constructed.<br />
<a href="http://www.fieldmuseum.org/undergroundadventure/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fieldmuseum.org/undergroundadventure/</a></p>
<p>I look forward to reading the book, and continuing the underground adventure! </p>
<p>Annie at the Transplantable Rose</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brooke Heppinstall</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13256</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooke Heppinstall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-13256</guid>
		<description>Ah, well.  There&#039;s some real personalities involved in this book.  I&#039;ll have to  back up and read your first post on this. I must tread carefully here.

Don&#039;t feel bad if you can&#039;t please all the garden nannies out there who are watching to see who&#039;s finally thrown in the towel and blasted an errant weed or two with their secret bottle of. . .weed killer! I feel guilty enough having NOT turned my compost pile last spring.  I didn&#039;t do it in   June, July, or (gasp!)August either.  Tough. 

My back hurts just thinking about how hard I work trying to please every garden nanny on the planet.  And trying to keep up with your own garden AND run a small nursery leads to aspirin abuse.  

My idea of compost tea is to throw a shovel full of compost into a drywall bucket, toss a handful of alfalfa meal in, and fill it up with pond water.  I&#039;ll let it sit for a couple of days, strain it into another bucket and add some of the ensuing &#039;tea&#039; to my watering can. 

Dirt Diva Two</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, well.  There&#8217;s some real personalities involved in this book.  I&#8217;ll have to  back up and read your first post on this. I must tread carefully here.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t feel bad if you can&#8217;t please all the garden nannies out there who are watching to see who&#8217;s finally thrown in the towel and blasted an errant weed or two with their secret bottle of. . .weed killer! I feel guilty enough having NOT turned my compost pile last spring.  I didn&#8217;t do it in   June, July, or (gasp!)August either.  Tough. </p>
<p>My back hurts just thinking about how hard I work trying to please every garden nanny on the planet.  And trying to keep up with your own garden AND run a small nursery leads to aspirin abuse.  </p>
<p>My idea of compost tea is to throw a shovel full of compost into a drywall bucket, toss a handful of alfalfa meal in, and fill it up with pond water.  I&#8217;ll let it sit for a couple of days, strain it into another bucket and add some of the ensuing &#8216;tea&#8217; to my watering can. </p>
<p>Dirt Diva Two</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kerri</title>
		<link>http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13252</link>
		<dc:creator>kerri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2007/01/28/teaming-with-microbes-take-2/#comment-13252</guid>
		<description>This has been a fun read :) I like compost, but am not too far into the soil science aspect of it yet....too many other things to think about....like what I&#039;m going to grow. However, I can see all the points you&#039;ve made!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been a fun read <img src='http://www.coldclimategardening.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I like compost, but am not too far into the soil science aspect of it yet&#8230;.too many other things to think about&#8230;.like what I&#8217;m going to grow. However, I can see all the points you&#8217;ve made!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced
Database Caching 11/36 queries in 0.013 seconds using memcached

Served from: www.coldclimategardening.com @ 2012-02-11 18:18:49 -->
